More on Civic Unionism

As you can see, I posted on Wednesday last week on Chekist's post about civic unionism. This provoked an interesting discussion, both here and on Three Thousand Versts... about what civic Unionism might entail. Anyway, I've been a bit lazy and have left two comments unanswered, one by O'Neill and one by Chekist himself.

I've started out writing a brief reply, but for distinctly Mark Twainian1 reasons, it turned into a 1500 word comment. Given that I think I raise some interesting, or at least mildly diverting, points, I think that it merits a post to itself. Basically, if you're too lazy/wise to read on, I tackle O'Neill's comment (with whom I agree on a lot) on the subject of trends in social conservatism north and south and I address Checkist's comment both on ethno-nationalist origins and on why a United Ireland used to be justified but isn't now.

Social Conservatism: As I said, I think I agree with pretty much everything O'Neill says in his comment. I am interested, however, in his characterisation of Ireland as socially conservative and in the rest of the UK, or Whitehall at least, as liberal, and in his suggestion that this observation provides good grounds for remaining in the UK.

I think O'Neill is quite right that Ireland (as in, the ROI) is in general more socially conservative than the UK and that Irish political life is also more socially conservative. I also agree that, given my residence in the socially conservative periphery, I’d personally prefer a situation where my neighbours’ more, um, pious urges are constrained by a liberal metropole than one where they are implicitly encouraged by a similarly conservative centre.

This in itself was a bloody good reason why all of Ireland ought not to have left the Union when it did, just as the UK was beginning to develop proper democratic institutions, and social democracy not much later.

One point on this though: the liberal metropole has not done a particularly efficient job at restraining the small-town conservatism of Northern Ireland society. It seems to remain, in Whitehall's eyes, something to be circumvented (say by exporting unhappily pregnant women to GB) than challenged.

Northern Ireland has been surprisingly isolated from the trends of mainstream UK society since partition. Indeed a liberalising trend is arguably far more obvious in the Republic. In fact, you could say that, over time, Ireland has become more British than Northern Ireland, which is to say more post-war European.

In which case, while the secession-within-a-secession delivered things like the NHS for Northern Ireland, it didn’t do the region’s progressives any favours in terms of the ‘British-isation’ of the society. Arguably the rest of Ireland is achieving that feat a little faster.

Perhaps this is for precisely the same reason that Ireland’s liberalisation took so long to begin: anyone with an ounce of liberal sentiment finds it easier to indulge in Ireland’s long-standing tradition of hopping on the boat to London than to listen to their neighbours.

Ethno-Nationalist Origins: I think my difference with Chekist comes down to a reading of what a civic patriotism might mean. He has a soft reading of it: the state ought not be founded along ethno-nationalist lines. I have a hard line: any specific state ought only be supported as a provider of institutions that adhere to social justice, democracy, human rights etc.

Two points: first, Chekist is of course correct that the origins of the ROI lie very much in ethno-nationalism (though in fairness, in terms of some of the high-jinks in Europe at the time Ireland’s ethno-nationalism, while ugly at times, was relatively benign).

But origins are not a good guide to how we ought to act today. It is entirely possible that a society living within a state, in Habermas’s terms,2 can uncouple itself from its ethno-nationalist origins and develop a more civic patriotism along the lines of Chekist's, or perhaps even my, definition in the paragraph above. Now, I think we’d both agree that Ireland has a journey to make here. I think however, that Ireland has made a large part of that journey already. The church’s power has collapsed. The country is far more internationally oriented than the UK in ways that are rooted in but not confined to economic modernisation. To turn Fíanna Fáil’s last but one election slogan backwards, there is a lot more to do, but a lot has been done.

I too would not like ‘to see established and successful multi-national states broken up for no greater purpose other than to satisfy tribal nationalism.’ And I’m certainly not arguing for that here. All I am arguing for is that a civic Unionism ought not be afraid of saying that their interests in remaining in the UK rely solely on the UK delivering institutions of justice for the citizenry in a manner that the ROI does not.

My boundary conservatism point is that, if it’s a toss-up (and it’s far from that at this moment), the status quo is probably more palatable than radical change, for the important pragmatic reason that change can lead the rise of the sorts of atavistic nationalism we’re not fans of. A United Ireland that would radicalise a generation of already-marginalised loyalists when it would not deliver greater justice to anyone else is not one I’m interested in.

Boundary Conservatism: Which brings me to my second point: boundary conservatism. How, I wonder, would a civic-minded person have viewed the last century in Ireland? Here’s my tuppenceworth, borne of my rather unusual set of half-formed opinions on the constitutional course of Irish history in the last century.

As I said above, I think that we – the Irish – left the UK at precisely the wrong moment: the country was on the road to proper democratisation, including the subsequent establishment of a welfare state and the social justice that that brought. To swap a nascent welfare democracy for an impoverished rural entity that was in awe of the Church was lunacy, before even taking into account the fact that the process sowed the seeds of mayhem in the North of the island.

It may seem hard to imagine that a UI could be in anyone’s interests in those circumstances, but the dysfunctional turn the Northern Ireland statelet took after its quasi-secession was a disgrace. As a result, a UI might have been justifiable certainly up until Northern Ireland as an entity collapsed on its own contradictions (so to speak). At least under the assumption that the choice was between Unification and the unjust status quo.

Now, the primary problem with a UI would probably have been that, roughly speaking, Protestantism wouldn’t have had an adequate voice in a United Ireland, so would have been subjected to a sort of informal marginalisation. While I think this can be over-stated, given how large a faction Protestants would have made, it has to have been a valid fear.

Despite this, I believe a UI would have been a better option for much of the history of Northern Ireland, simply because Northern Ireland wasn’t delivering even on formal rights to a substantial number of its citizens, never mind its delivering on informal recognitions. Since the UK and its Stormont branch seemed incapable of delivering, the people were rather justified in seeking out somewhere that would. In these terms, Northern Ireland represented a profound injustice for many of its citizens.

The Good Friday Agreement changed this. I think a UI was preferable to the point where Westminster started trying to sort Northern Ireland out. Fair employment legislation and the reform of government were enormously important junctures in the validity of aspirations for a UI (if you see what I mean).

The current institutions complete that process. In essence, I think the Good Friday Agreement, in guaranteeing justice for all the citizenry of Northern Ireland, despite all its flaws, is an excellent argument against a UI. Why rock the boat when justice is being delivered on both sides of the border? What, beyond a stubborn wish to get one up on your adversaries, are good grounds now for a UI? Certainly there are continuously fewer social justice grounds for the move. The wrongs done to Northern Ireland’s Catholics have been redressed to a large extent. Unless the sort of calculation we discussed above goes the Republic of Ireland’s way, a change in sovereignty, rather than attending to their concerns would only act as an attempt to visit the same injustice on a new group as was visited upon Catholics in 1922.

Of course there’s a profound irony in all of this. Depressing though it is, some sort of crisis was obviously required for Westminster to do the right thing by Northern Ireland’s Catholics. It’s a tragedy that the collapse of Stormont and the rise of the IRA was the form that crisis took. But by (belatedly to a disgraceful extent) fixing the problem, Westminster has removed good reasons for a UI and any validity to the ultimate claims of Irish republicans.

That said, we know what happened when they tried to kill Home Rule with kindness...

 


1: Or rather, this is a misattribution. See Blaise Pascal's 1656 Letter to the Jesuits: "The present letter is a very long one, simply because I had no leisure to make it shorter." (back)

2: As set out by Habermas in many places, including in his 1990 essay 'Citizenship and National Identity,' tacked on to the end of Between Facts and Norms. (back)

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The irony is that Sinn Féin

The irony is that Sinn Féin are in a much better position in the current Stormont set-up than they would ever be in an all-Ireland parliament. They've effectively recognised partition by taking their seats in a 6-county assembly, which although little more than a glorified county council gives them considerable power and influence to change things from within, whereas in the Dail they're little more than an afterthought. They won't turn down the fat paycheques from Westminster and have more or less accepted that a UI ain't gonna happen any time soon. While the DUP indulge in their "Ulster (-3) nationalist" fantasies, it looks like SF are the true civic unionists at the moment!

You might be right on SF

You might be right on SF being civic Unionists (at least in my mold) CW. That said, I'm not convinced that they have accepted partition, at least at the grassroots level, so there are divisions to come on that front. Nor am I convinced that they are motivated by their Westminster paycheques: despite all their tactical shenanigans, one can never accuse NI politicians from shirking a very narrow local varient on the politics of ideas (worse luck!).

My guess on SF is that, while May's election in the republic put paid to any UI 2016 or GA for the Áras ideas (unless Fíanna Fáil took either up), the party will eventually split between people who think that social justice is the priority and people who obsess on the border. Or to put it differently, between the people focusing on the flag over Stormont and people focusing on the policies made there. Let's just hope that the split happens when people no longer want to fight.

Oh, and also, I think it's too early to tell whether Stormont will be a glorified county council or not. There is potential for interesting politics once the institutions bed down.

I see that O'Neill has

I see that O'Neill has posted an interesting link to this piece that was on Sunday Sequence today. Fascinating stuff.

Ciaran, just a couple of

Ciaran, just a couple of points.

I think you've summed up rather well our differing interpretations of civic politics.

I actually agree to an extent with your comments regarding a UI. Probably a United Ireland with a large Northern Protestant population would have been forced to accommodate that minority and therefore temper its more theocratic and ethno-nationalist impulses. That is why I look back at the Home Rule crisis with more ambivalence than most unionists.

I would argue, and although your arguments regarding the GFA negate the necessity for a UI merely on the basis of that agreement delivering, I think perhaps you might agree with me here, that the ROI will continue to liberalise and secularise quicker without northern nationalism and particularly Sinn Fein. As part of a state as large as the UK, social conservatism here is tempered to a greater extent than if we were a rather greater chunk of a United Ireland.

A United Ireland would be a more conservative, more sectarian place than its constituent parts are now, enthralled by resurgent and successful republicanism. Even setting aside the more conventional economic and identity debates, I would rather be a small socially conservative corner of a large, modern, secular, pluralist state with these characteristics reflected in our laws, than a significant chunk of a more socially conservative state, actually hampering that state's modernising, secularising influences.

Hi Chekist, that's a

Hi Chekist, that's a difficult one. After all, the Sinn Féin we know is a product of partition and my guess is that they wouldn't exist if partition hadn't happened.

At the same time, I've been for a while fascinated by what the good and bad effects of partition on the ROI might have been.

Lots to think about!

I don't believe they would

I don't believe they would exist if partition hadn't happened either Ciaran. The point I'm making is that they certainly would exist in any future United Ireland arrangement which got rid of partition and they would be bouyant, beligerant and triumphalist in such a scenario.

My initial point was that had partition not happened the Republic of Ireland may well have initially developed in a more positive fashion, because of a large geographically concentrated minority. Pure conjecture of course.

Sure there's nothing wrong

Sure there's nothing wrong with a spot of conjecture Chekist! Sorry for misinterpreting your point - post-work tiredness does not make for accurate reading!

On the substance of your point: I suspect that they might even suffer in a UI in almost precisely the same way that they suffered in the election just gone: the  huge Fíanna Fáil machine would swallow up their voters even more so when their greatest bugbear disappeared.

Have a good weekend!

Hi! Your post and it's

Hi! Your post and it's comments are VERY interesting. I've been fascinated by Irish history since... I don't know when. To see such a live (and polite) discussion about issue I never thought about is brilliant. Your discussion has the merit to link some of the questions I still had about what I saw as socially-conservatist Ireland. I understood to need for a nation such as Ireland to hold on to traditions (much has the French-Canadian did until 1960), but never thought of the possible impact of unification (in the 1920s) on that conservatism.

I was wondering though didn’t a progressive force exist in the 1910s and 1920s? Didn’t talks exist between Irish nationalists and the Bolsheviks for instance? What happened to those progressives after 1922?

I heard somewhere that the ROI maybe living the first wave of its Quiet Revolution (which marked Québec’s culture in the 1960s)… could that be? Can we hope for a new Ireland in the next decade? And if so, would that bring you to think that a UI or some other kind of alliance between Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland?

Anyhow, many thanks that was a great read!

Thanks for the kind comment

Thanks for the kind comment Charles-Antoine. I suppose there are some interesting parallels between Quebec and Ireland in terms of the cultural innovations that follow from dissatisfaction with constitutional arrangements. Still, I think - from the little I know - that, perhaps simply because of the sorts of arrangements that are out there, Quebec and Canada have done a much better job of negotiating their relationship than Ireland ever did with the UK (or vice-versa).

And, if Quebec does secede, it'll probably do so under terms that, if Ireland fulfilled them when it seceded from the UK, it barely did so (not to mention the failures of the Northern Ireland state).

I could bang on at length about progressive Ireland, though I suspect others (for instance) are far better informed than me. For the most part the socialist elements in Irish society were either co-opted into the cultural nationalist narrative, viz James Connolly, were marginalised or simply emigrated. Moreover, the co-option into cultural nationalism has assisted many Irish people in insisting despite the evidence that we don't have a class division and the like.

Though there was the Limerick Soviet...

And as for the future: well we'll see! Ireland is like everywhere else: lots of things inspire hope and lots of things inspire gloom. Whatever course it takes, though, it's true that the society I was born into is not only gone: it's a foreign land.

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